Guild & Raid

PoN Kings – A Variation on Suicide Kings

My guild has always been fairly casual.  With the introduction of 10 and 25 man raids, loot systems became a bit more difficult.  Where many only reward points based on loot that drops, those who don’t attend or who were sat, get screwed out of necessary DKP.  My guild has always been fairly drama free when it comes to loot, in fact the only times we have had a problem were from someone in vanilla when we used zero sum, when they disagreed with who should have priority over an item, then someone else in wrath getting an item for their off spec which they later used for their main spec.

So we set out to find something that would be simple enough that if we had a 25 man group we could use it, but also if we had to split up to 2 10s or even 1 10 man the system would still work.  We finally landed on a modified version of Suicide Kings, which we call PoN Kings, PoN being the acronym for my guild, Phalanx of Nod.

Lets dive into the system.

How does it work?
This is a rank based system. When loot is rolled for, the person with the lowest rank value that needs the item wins the item.  It’s that simple.  This will be calculated using our officer add-on.

How is rank determined?
Rank is determined as follows. We consider the last 10 raid nights, and your rank is calculated:
Number of items won divided by number of nights attended

Tie Breakers

  • First Tie breaker is “number of nights attended”
  • Second Tie breaker is “/roll”

Why this system?
We wanted a system that would stabilize loot distribution but still take into consideration recent attendance.  That’s basically all this is.  It will help equalize “loot won per night attended”. People that attend more frequently will be able to drive their number down more quickly and subsequently, have slightly more access to loot.  It also prevents someone from winning multiple things one raid week, then still being able to edge others out for more desirable gear next week.

Also, if people disappear for whatever reason they will be less able to jump in to a raid, snake take a bunch of loot, and then disappear again.

Other key points

  • Raiders will have priority over FnF and they will both have priority over alts, at all time.
  • This system is for MAIN SPEC GEAR ONLY, and does not count towards offspec gear, or even alt gear.
  • All offspec rolls will continue to be /roll based.
  • New guild members will have a probation period of 1 raid night, because we cannot calculate a rank for someone without an attendance record (they can still win just not before everyone else passes)
  • Attendance is credited when the raid starts. Exceptions can be made for extenuating circumstances but this is the norm.

Offspec Policy

  • If it has Hit on it, it’s purely DPS and Healers may roll on it for offspec
  • If it has Spirit on it, the following rules apply:
    • It is Main Spec for healers. NO EXCEPTIONS
    • Spirit is a valuable stat for all flavors of priest, Shaman (Elemental and Resto) & Druids (Resto and Boomkin)
  • If a caster item doesn’t have Hit or Spirit on it, it is considered Main Spec for both healers and caster dps
  • Most everything else is common sense

Q: How do I know what my rank is?
A: Your rank will change depending on everyone else’s rank in the raid. You will be able to whisper the master looter “rank” and it will tell you. We will also post the ranks of all attendees at the beginning of each raid, using a custom addon used by the officers.

Q: How is my rank being tracked?
A: We do this via the officer note. That way it is visible and you can help determine if its correct. This is managed by the officer addon used to track attendance and manage loot distribution.

Q: When does my rank change?
A: Your relative rank may change whenever you win an item, or whenever anyone else wins an item. This is a live system and we are not waiting until the end of the night for a given person’s rank to change. That said, when the raid is over your attendance and wins for that night will count towards your new rank for the next raid.

Q: Wait so lowest rank puts me higher on the priority to get an item?
A: Yes the lower your rank, the higher priority you are to win an item, just go with it.

Q: Why this and not DKP or similar system?
A: DKP is based on boss kills, and if we split into 10s, DKP favors the group that can down more bosses creating more a of an A vs B team, this system works across raid sizes.

Q: Why not stick with rolls?
A: We found in 25 man raids, which we are doing more, didn’t provide a proper and even distribution of loot, this system’s goal is to fix that

Q: What do the rankings look like with # of items vs # of raids


If you would like to know more about the system or how to implement it or to get more details on the officer addon feel free to contact me on Dalaran US – Alliance in game, the character name is Ceraphus.  Also you can send an email to or contact me via twitter.


4 Comments on PoN Kings – A Variation on Suicide Kings

  1. Jake Healey

    What do you consider main spec?
    Like if a DPS fills in as a healer?
    Or the off tank who DPS’s as much as he tanks.

    • Ceraphus

      For us, main spec is your spec you are dedicated to. so if someone is a tank, but we have 4 tanks, and we say go DPS, they are still a tank, but thats our rule and its worked for us.. By doing it this way, the person who wants to be a tank can still claim need on tank gear, which is fine because typically they are a tank, so the other tanks don’t mind. Also the DPS don’t pitch a fit because this person “doesn’t even DPS usually and is taking our loots”. So we have everyone declare a main spec when they join the guild and become a raider to limit the confusion.

  2. Having been subjected to every form of DKP, LootCouncil, and the grand old original Suicide Kings, the PoN loot system has always seemed fine to me. Then again, I’m not much of a loot-whore. If I get an upgrade, cool. If not, maybe next time. And I have routinely passed for other people, even if they are not regular raid attenders or folks who have since left.

    My perspective has always been, “If it dropped once, it will drop again.”
    quori´s last blog post ..Something is bugging me…

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